New Delhi: The Rajya Sabha on Tuesday approved the anti-graft Lokpal and Lokayuktas Bill, 2011.
Anjali Bhardwaj,
a member of the non-profit National Campaign for People’s Right to
Information (NCPRI), said in an interview that the legislation was a
step forward in India’s fight against corruption; it also provides
greater autonomy to the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI). Edited
excerpts:
How do you see the sudden urgency in the political class,
especially the Congress and the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), to pass
the Lokpal Bill?
There
has been a huge demand from the people and from civil society that
there has to be a specific anti-corruption and grievance redressal
mechanism. People have taken to the streets to show the political class
that there is a great disenchantment. People are fed up and their
grievances are not being redressed. I think at this moment there is a
realization that this is pretty much the last session where legislative
business will get conducted and, therefore, a great urgency to bring
accountability legislation at this point.
Of
course, there is an added pressure by the electoral results that have
come out in the states where the ruling party has realized that there is
a certain disenchantment among the people about its performance. The
need for accountability has also been brought home by the electoral win
of the Aam Aadmi Party (AAP) in Delhi in the 28 seats that they have
won. And I think Anna Hazare
sitting (on a fast) and there are lots of organizations including the
NCPRI that have been constantly engaging with the government and the
political parties to say that this is extremely important.
How does a body like a Lokpal re-order governance in a country like India?
The
demand for a Lokpal has arisen from the fact that there isn’t an
empowered and independent investigating agency in the country. We have
the CBI, which is very empowered but is not adequately independent of
the government. On the other hand, we have the Central Vigilance
Commission (CVC), which is independent but not adequately empowered.
I
feel that the passage of the Lokpal Bill is extremely significant
because the CBI will get far greater autonomy than it has got so far.
The Lokpal is going to be an empowered body. It will have its own
independent machinery, which will enquire and investigate into matters
of corruption. One should see a far stronger and more effective
anti-corruption body.
There are some fears that it will add one more layer of bureaucracy to the system. Do you agree?
I
think that the enactment of the Bill, which the NCPRI has maintained,
does not mean that all the ills will go away. We have several systemic
problems which need to be addressed for corruption to go away and in
order for corruption to be tackled effectively.... To us the enactment
of the Lokpal Bill will be one part of the anti-corruption and grievance
redress mechanism and structure.
If
this law gets enacted and if we see more enactment of other laws like
the whistleblowers Bill, which is in the Rajya Sabha, and the grievance
redressal Bill, which is in the Lok Sabha, then we will at least have a
legislative structure. And then of course we will have the whole
implementation issue which will have to be dealt with.
Is the AAP fair in saying that it is a Jokepal Bill?
The
current version of the Lokpal Bill, since it has come with the
suggestions of the select committee, is not as ineffective as earlier
versions of the Lokpal Bill has been.
It has several measures which are going to be far better and
which are going to leave citizens in a far better place than they find
themselves today when they are exposed to corruption. The Lokpal Bill as
it has come right now is not exactly how the civil society wanted it,
but it certainly a great step forward in terms of having an
anti-corruption legislation that we needed.
Do you think the Lokpal will be competent enough to handle cases of corruption in high offices?
If we
look at corruption in high offices, we know that all the cases for
investigation go to the CBI and the typical problem that has been faced
with the CBI was that it is not adequately independent of the
government. So what the Lokpal is doing now is that it has given
autonomy to the CBI.
It
has not come as far as we would have liked. We would have liked the
Lokpal to have complete administrative control on the officers in the
CBI who are investigating cases of corruption and that has not happened.
To a
very large extent, the Bill and its provisions do provide for a far
greater autonomy for the CBI than it had so far. Therefore, when it
comes to big ticket corruption, one can be hopeful that cases will be
investigated more fairly and we will see more results and better
investigation happening.
Given the background in which it has come, do you think the Lokpal will be able to live up to the expectations?
Having
the law, yes, it’s a very good first step. But finally, how it gets
implemented is going to depend on how the pressure is kept up by civil
society, how the government shows political will to implement the law
once it is passed and put in place, and what are the sort of people who
are appointed as Lokpal.
